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tv   Mad Money  CNBC  September 27, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am EDT

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with any end to the hoax? a strong fourth quarter begins monday? was today where the averages roared, dow gaining 72 points. nasdaq climbing .193% the real deal, and the last few days were an aberration. you know how important this question is? every money manager and his brother in this country is trying to figure out which trajectory is phony and which is real. you know how we work on "mad money," we, meaning me. we have a distinctly joanie mitchell approach to the market. we look at stocks from both sides. what i want to do is trace the view from both sides now and then reach a conclusion about the ultimate direction that awaits us.
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first let me give you the bear case because that is most salient right now, because until this morning, the bear case had suddenly come to fore. there was so much to be negative about. the terrible durable goods numbers, further reduction in gross domestic product. they all point to further reductions in earnings estimates. as well as what we now regard as a pathetic apple iphone launch. you can see why people would be petrified about the earnings parade. you would like to think this is all an anomaly if you're bullish. and the economy has a little rough patch before it accelerates again. what happens if this is the rough patch that causes
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companies to slam on the brakes, ahead of what is no longer a fiscal cliff but a fiscal retaining wall. when you consider that the republicans are run by the tea party and democrats don't have to change, we have gone from thinking we can jump the fiscal cliff to thinking how can we slow business spending so that the collision won't destroy us? it's not just the u.s. that's a drag. china, there's a big hate on china right now. china is big hat. no. big mao cap no cattle. the worst downturn in two months is more representative of what's happening because there is no unity between the rich and poor nations. don't they show that there's no real hope for fiscal reform in
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that wounded country? today's action, i heard all day it's phony. me and many portfolio managers buy stocks and move them higher to the end of the quarter to get a little gain there. the conclusion, if this were monday coming up, a new month, a new quarter, you would see this entire markup window dressing period, the deal, and we were right back into that downturn that just began and has much further to go. these are some real heavy negatives that could turn even the most optimistic of the bulls into bears.
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let's take a look at the bullish side. just when we were starting to be afraid of what's going on in europe despite the rise, offering exactly what the richer countries like germany want to do to hold up their end of the deal. second the chinese market, it rallied hard last night and that could be a sign that we're about to get more stimulus in everyone's favorite communist country. suffice it to say that today general electric joined the contingent of companies including the former parent company of this network, it's particularly heartening about china, and they raise questions about maybe we are being too gloomy about the country's fortunes. third our fiscal retaining wall still beckons.
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stocks that are most vulnerable, they rallied hard today, these moves could be a sign that all is not lost. plus we got some high profile number boosts from brokerage houses this week, from banks and home builders. you know what? you don't get earnings estimate bumps. as far as those managers that want to lock in performance, i think there's far more managers that want to gain performance by buying the weakness. there are money managers that want to lock in gains. we know that the -- do you think that they would be willing to lock in a prospective defeat against the benchmark, when we're not even in the fourth quarter yet? there simply aren't enough winning managers that can afford to lock in a game. this is how apple was able to break its fall. perhaps if you get so many money managers still done on it.
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and the companies are not accepting any orders for the iphone and are going to have a wait list. i don't know how poorly the launch is actually going. we do know that apple is a stinker. but if it's so bad, why do so many people want the phone? where do i come out? my take, i think this rally is not predicated on anything in the u.s. in order for this move to continue, we actually need an end game in europe and a stimulus in china. and we need them now. so my bottom line, if we don't get real positives in europe and china, we're not done going down. but if we do get those from those huge trading partners, that will offset the fiscal retaining wall that we may end up hitting. lorraine in my home state of new jersey. >> caller: yes. >> hey, lorraine, what's up? >> i'm calling about econo.
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is now the time to get in? >> a lot of people are on the fence as to whether natural gas is actually done going down, and i am not concerned about the -- i think the fracking stories are overdone. a very good statement today talking about it. i think the issue is that you've got to have natural gas go higher. i need to go to justin in indiana. justin. >> caller: boo-yah jim, it's justin. i want to get your thought about these home builders going higher? >> every time a home builder has >> every time a home builder has a dramatic decline they have been buyable. i want to own it. paul in tennessee. paul? >> caller: hey, jim i was just wanting to call and ask you
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about metro pcs, especially with the most recent rumors about industry consolidation. i was wondering what your thoughts were. >> it has to be sprint to buy them, or t-mobile. i don't think either is going to buy them. you should be trimming positions on a speculative story that i don't like on the fundamentals and that's how i recommend stocks, is the fundamentals, not rumors. the ball is definitely in china's court, if they come out with positive news, they could go higher, remember, you always have to look at stocks from both sides now. coming up, rapid results? orasure technology a leader in diagnostic tech products. cramer is getting instant answers on this new opportunity in biotech when he talks to the company's ceo next. and rising in the east, the headlines hit, the market
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rallies, but which u.s. stocks are actually worth owning in china? plus answering the call. telco cloud play 8 by 8 gave us a ring and cramer is all ears when the company's ceo gets in the hot seat, all coming up on "mad money." >> don't miss a second of "mad money." follow @jimcramer on twitter. have a question, tweet cramer, hash tag mad tweets. send jim an e-mail at "mad money" or give us a call at 1-800-743-cnbc. miss something? head to like the elephant on my chest... well, i had all the classic symptoms... he thought he was having a heart attack. she said, "take an aspirin, we need to go to the hospital." i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen.
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we are always looking for new opportunities here on "mad money." that's why i wanted to introduce you to one of the most intriguing, speculative stories around.
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it's called orasure technologies. it's a tiny health care outfit that's described by market capital. company makes products for collecting saliva samples and tes tests for diseases like hepatitis c, and hiv as opposed to more invasive blood or urine based tests that people are less likely to take. last year orasure came out with the first hepatitis c test on the market. then we got the real game changer. the beginning of july, the fda approved the over the counter hiv test. it's an hiv test that you can actually buy over the counter. the only one of its kind and this one could go a long way towards helping to diagnose the hundreds of thousands of americans who don't know they have the disease. that's why the stock spiked up to $13.36.
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since then it's pulled back, $10.71. a week after the fda gave the go-ahead, a big secondary offering sold $75 million worth of stock at $12.30. the stock is admittedly quite expensive especially when you consider that orasure isn't expected to turn a profit until 2014. let's check in with doug michaels, he's the president and ceo of orasure technologies. welcome to "mad money." >> thank you, jim. >> so i go to walgreens, i go to cvs next week, what are you going to see? >> hopefully you're going to see that product on the shelf. we began shipping to retailers last friday and saturday, obviously the product is in
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transit between our distribution center and the retailers and they have to get it out into the stores. it's going to be in 30,000 stores as well as available online. >> you've got every detail in there. you talk about how the stores themselves are going to get behind this. i presume therefore i'm going to maybe see a display, we don't know which ones, this will be readily visible, it's not going to be on some aisle where it's going to be tucked away. >> the response from retailers has been extraordinarily positive. the retailers are actually cutting the product in off cycle. normally they reset their stores twice a year and it's going in right now. we're giving retailers a couple weeks to get the product on shelf and then we're going to go out with our communications folks and build awareness about the product's availability and promote trial and repeat purchases. >> is that advertising certain web sites? tv? how far are you going to go with this? >> all of the above. we're going to work with the
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retailers to give on site promotions. we're going to be in new york city, we're going to use celebrity to get on a lot of the different talk shows. >> celebrity people who have hiv? >> we haven't disclosed what celebrities we're going to use, but suffice it to say that they're well known. the first fda approved test that you can take in the comfort and privacy of your home, there's really no excuse why people shouldn't know their hiv status. >> there's a lot of reasons why people might not go to the doctor and request an hiv test. certainly there's still a lot of stigma associated with hiv. there's about 1.2 million people infected with hiv here in the united states, jim, and about 20% to 25% of those individuals are unaware that they're infected. and what's most concerning is it's those individuals who are infected but unaware.
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they're responsible for 50% to 70% of the forward transmission. so our objective is to put as many tools out there as we can to make it easier for people to know their hiv status. >> do you envision a world where someone has unprotected sex, they would go to the drugstore and get this within 72 hours? >> we have spent a lot of time making sure consumers can understand the appropriate use of this product. it's not designed to detect infection immediately after someone is infected. but it's exactly the same technology that's used in doctors offices, hospitals and the public health market. this is the rapid leading hiv test in the united states and now we're making it available to consumers. >> our show has been focused on hepatitis c as the biggest opportunity in medicine. you've got a test for it, but you just don't think -- you talk about it as a billion dollar opportunity, but it's not as big
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for your company as this one. >> we haven't said that. >> all right, good. >> the hepatitis c opportunity is every bit as exciting as this product's availability over the counter. hepatitis c is about five times more prevalent than hiv here in the united states. there's about four to five million people infected with hepatitis c and up to two thirds of those individuals are unaware of their infection. there's a huge reservoir of undetected infection in our age group. >> when i go to my doctor, should i be asking for a hep c test? >> the cdc just recommended that all baby boomers, everybody born between 1945 and 1965 be tested for hepatitis c. there's about 80 million of us. >> and that's your product that we'll be using. >> absolutely. it's a 20-minute test, it's highly accurate, it's laboratory accurate and it's out there in the market right now.
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>>, we had the ceo on, a big tv show. you have got a genetic problem that is an -- >> we acquired a company in canada, and they are the market leader in oral collection systems for molecular diagnostic, makes their products and makes it available to their members so they can get better information about their genealogy. there's another company that provides a consumer service for people who want to know what their genetic profile is and any potential risks. >> i don't want to embarrass you, but you are a total heavy hitter. this is not -- it's been around for a while. but mr. michaels spent 19 years at j. and j., you ran ortho clinical diagnostics.
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so this is a business -- why did you leave? >> those are the two best diagnostics companies in the country. >> i thoroughly enjoyed my experience with abbott and johnson & johnson, two of the finest companies in the world, and i had a great career with those companies. i was approached by the board of directors at orasure technologies and they talked to me about the promise of these technologies, about the opportunities to really make a big impact on public health and i said let's do it. >> i want to thank you, that's doug michaels, president and ceo of orasure technologies. they have got the absolute best up to date information from mr. michaels. i want you to do the home work before you take a shot or make a big investment in this company. coming up, rising in the east? the headlines hit, the market
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rallies, but which u.s. stocks are actually worth owning if china steps on the gas? and later, answering the call. >> if they want to come on the show and tell us why i'm too bearish, i welcome them. >> cramer is all ears when the company's ceo gets in the hot seat, all coming up on "mad money." [ male announcer ] the 2013 smart comes with 8 airbags,
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[ male announcer ] the exceedingly nimble, ridiculously agile, tight turning, fun to drive 2013 smart. ♪ we keep seeing the same darn headlines. stocks advance because of the hope for chinese stimulus. this headline is recurring and used for any rally. so perhaps it's worth parsing where we are with the chinese stimulus. first we always get excited about potential stimulus from china, when we see the chinese stock market roar at the end of the day, like it did last night,
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with a gain for the most closely followed index of the people's republic. that makes sense when you consider the european stock agency will rebound when the rich countries agree to help the poor ones, stocks can foretell events and often do. however, there have been so many false tells or indications about that totally unreliable and fixed stock market over there. and we shouldn't get too excited about a chinese rally. the land of mao remains in a hideous bear market. it has fallen back to where it was three years ago. rather than get our hopes up, i think we should temper our expectations about when and how large the stimulus will be, while at the same time slicing our applications about how bad things really are. the idea that china could still expand at a 5%, 6% clip would be outstanding. expectations remain too high over there. that said, we often have too
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many stocks over here that go up on even a whiff of a chinese stimulus program. it's important to separate what should rally versus what does rally. when you speak of infrastructure, that's what people say is going to be stimulated. china has a lot of -- they've got tons of aluminum, even if it's a high cost and dirty producer. that means stop taking coal off. we also take steel. again, that makes no sense, unless the chinese economy can absorb all the steel they dump worldwide. i find that highly unlikely. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be buying the ingredients of steel which the chinese don't have. think iron, i like vale, think vle. secondarily they need copper. that's fcx. how about machinery? although it is a second derivative, meaning it won't happen immediately, they will need engines and trucks and earth movers.
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cat said negative things but those are the only two worth going with and those companies won't see a bump in time to save their quarters which is actually what matters. you can include general electric in machinery, and today the ceo said china is going to be a huge driver for earnings, that led us to increase our position for ge. people want to buy joy global, i don't know. finally there will be a step up in oil demand, and that scenario i think is very investable. the chinese will need to import and when they do that, you will want to own not any of the major oils or independents. you need international drillers and service companies. they make the actual rigs in deep water drilling. now let's be fair, everything does go up on a real stimulus story. and if you get actual stimulus, holy cow. but here's the bottom line, i just want you to realize that what you can own, which is just the above and what needs to be sold as a trade, which is pretty
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much everything else, and there's no real stimulus, then these favored nation stocks will most likely get clocked harder than any other stocks out there. let's go to eric in wisconsin. eric? >> caller: hello, jim, a big brew city boo-yah. >> done your way. what's up? >> caller: elgin natural resources they just reaffirmed their 2012 guidance, what do you think? >> this is a gamblers stock, and i don't want to gamble. i want to invest. let's go to steve in florida. >> caller: boo-yah, jim. >> boo-yah, steve. >> caller: i just wanted to say thank you for everything you do for us people. >> i'm doing my best, thank you for that, it's great that you said it. >> caller: i have made enough money, jim, i moved from
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pennsylvania to florida this month. >> good for you, sunshine. i was talking about doing that just the other day, saying you know what? when this gig is over, which may not be for another 40 years, i would move to florida. >> caller: it's beautiful, but my big question is here is wynn resorts. we all know wynn is at least a $125 stock, but with wynn slipping here again, even though they were up a little bit today, with the china stimulus, that's going to help the stock come back up, isn't it? >> i agree with you, i got to tell you wynn surprises me that it's down this much. vegas hasn't been that hot. i'm bullish on wynn. that doesn't mean it can't go down ten, but i think it does go up 25%. >> bill in illinois. >> caller: my question is this, gm is already doing well in china, with the proposed
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stimulus package they're talking about, how do you think gm is going to fare. >> be careful. europe is just absolutely terrible for them. two, while china may come back, i don't know how much money they can make on cars, but most importantly, the u.s. government is still a big shareholder and that stock's going up, boom, you get slapped upside the head with a big gob of gm stock if it goes too high. bulls in the china shop, it's still important to temper your expectations. too many stocks go up on a whiff of stimulus. many stocks will go down if there's none. coming up, answering the call. >> they have want to come on the show to tell me why i'm too bearish, they're welcome. >> eight by eight gave us a ring. cramer is all ears when the company's ceo gets in the hot seat just ahead. ♪
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it is time for the lightning round. are you ready skee-daddy?
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time for the lightning round. brian in maryland. brian? >> caller: jim, good evening, we love jim cramer and staff in tacoma park, maryland. >> i'm loving that and my staff loves it too because they're the best there is. what's up? >> caller: please talk to us sir about pan american corporation. >> i prefer the slv, there are a lot of people @jimcramer saying i don't like silver. i don't dislike silver, i just like gold more. >> arlene in california. >> caller: jim, my stock is adonis pharmaceuticals. >> yesterday when that was down, that's one of the first times i have seen it down. this is really terrific. i want to own that. barbara in oregon. >> caller: hi, jim, i benefitted from your advice in the past for which i thank you, but i would
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like your opinion on excelon, exc. >> i happen to think this stock at this level is good. i would love excelon's management to come on the show and say what i think which is that i think the stock is inexpensive. go to david in california. >> caller: the stock is universal display, and the ticker is mel. >> not a fave. this is, i got to tell you, flat panel display infrastructure is so competitive. look, i am very -- i am wary of it. i'm wary of the stock, let's put it that way. i need to go to jerry in hawaii. jerry? >> caller: yes, jim, a big island aloha boo-yah from hawaii. i'm a novice here. i have been listening since
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january and i'm up 10% on my money, thank you so much. i want to congratulate you on listening to your children's dietary wisdom and i like hain's products. so i was happy to hear you recommend it. but it's come down over $15. >> sometimes a decline is a viable decline. the stock is up today but it's come down way too much, and therefore i think you got to pull the trigger. the fundamentals are great, i can't believe you've been given a big decline to be able to get into it. i need to go to ed right now in new york. >> caller: big buffalo boo-yah, jim cramer. >> c.j. spiller is down. jackson is down. a boo-yah back to you. it's your third choice. tashard choice. go ahead. >> caller: thanks for all you do for us home gamers, jim. i really appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> caller: my stock is sand ridge energy. >> i would put sand ridge in the same category as i have put heck and magnum hunter and key.
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these are all -- let's just call it speculative plays. i need to go to jay in georgia. jay? go ahead, jay. >> caller: this is jay out of atlanta, georgia. i'm asking about river bend technologies, i see here they did a little something today and i wonder if it's still -- >> it's an up stock and everybody wants to be in it and i'm not going to touch telco equipment because i have lost too much money recommending telco stocks on this show. let's go to marilyn in pennsylvania. >> caller: hi, boo-yah, jim cramer. >> boo-yah. >> caller: i'm 80 years old living on my investments. however most of my certificates
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of deposit paying 5% or more are now maturing. >> right. >> caller: and i wanted to know what you thought of altria. >> although politically it's not correct, that is a good, good situation because of the 5% yield. no stock is as safe as a cd. i'm not saying that. i am saying that this is a good yield play if you want some income and i think the earnings story is very solid. and that ladies and gentlemen is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> the lightning round is sponsored by td ameritrade.
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as an investor, you simply cannot afford to be wedded to your own opinions. you've got to challenge yourself. finding smart places to put your money is all about being flexible. when i say something negative about a stock, i am always willing to at least listen to the other side of the story. especially when the ceo comes on the show. consider eight by eight. it's always very speculative. it's given us a tremendous amount of speculation over the years, i suggest that it might be better to go with a dominant cloud name. 8 by 8 has gone through a huge transformation over the last decade. maybe i'm alluding too much to the well far away past. eight years ago it was a semiconductor company.
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businesses that use 8 by 8 services do not need to purchase expensive phone equipment. it's all bundled as a service. that saves businesses big money. i still think the stock is highly speculative. so it can always be risky if you chase it. but with these caveats in mind, let's give brian martin, the chairman and ceo of 8 by 8, a chance to tell us more about his company and why it might be a worthwhile investment. when i say something that's tough, management comes on, they want a shot, here's what i do. i'm giving the floor to you, because i already took the floor, you've got it. >> we are a technology company, and as you said, we have been in the communication space many, many decades.
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we were forced to become a service provider. we started in the home phone market and now we moved into the business market which has been extremely profitable and extremely fast growing for us. >> who is right now servicing these customers that you are taking business from? >> my average new customer bought 14 lines from it. that's a tiny end of the small business market. most of these customers have att or verizon as their long distance provider. >> it's winstream competitor. >> winstream is one of those companies we're probably taking a little bit of business away from. we're not just the long distance provider, but we're bringing in a turnkey solution, the phone, the service, we become your monthly long distance provider and we give you capabilities and
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features to attach yourself to an iphone or a google tablet. >> we know cisco as being a company that has provided a lot of equipment into this sector. you seem like a partner of cisco, but someone who cisco might not want to partner with. >> cisco is a vendor. >> a lot of people get excited these days. whether it be vernetix or interdigital, value of patents, we know that with motorola. it was bought by google because of the patents. how much should be be putting stock in your patents? >> we were issued our 83rd patent today. the communication space
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especially in voice is a patent minefield. there's a lot of ip out there, goes back to lucent and att and all of those big portfolios. the fact that we have been an i.t. company, we certainly don't have the thousands of patents that some of those entities have. it's enabled us to sell patents to some of the players out there. we do cross license exchanges. it's a vital part of our business, even though it may not show up on the top line every quarter. >> two nights ago we had mr. mewsi, he's the ceo of paychex, he's talking about how small business, how the formation is not good. how much is the -- does the pie heart? i know you're taking share in the pie. but the small business market is not growing in the company that we know of. >> fcc actually twice a year publishes access line data.
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the past two periods, access lines are going down for the last two years. they've stabilized. it's not like we're going up tremendously. even while the market is declining, the penetration of our type of technology is already at 8.2%. the home phone line market, which had the early voice over. you don't really reach the small business market through direct advertising. we employ a nationwide sales team in a call center in san jose, california. we also in the last 18 months started selling to larger companies.
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our latest is actually 1,500 extensions. those are being sold through channel partners. and that's the path into those customers. >> i think it's a compelling story. i always like to admit when i may have moved too quick to be able to say be careful. it's still speculative because of its size, but this is a different play from it is a cloud play in its own right, definitely. that's brian martin, chairman and ceo of 8 by 8. lots of stuff on the web, if you want to learn more about the story, pretty compelling, certainly more compelling than i thought the story was. we're sitting on a bunch of shale gas.
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we have lots to anticipate as we start the fourth quarter on monday. as i said earlier, depending on what comes out of europe and china in the next few weeks, there's real potential for this market to hold here, go higher or sink lower. my job is to help you make money no matter what happens, no matter which way the seesaw turns. that's why we play am i diversified. this is where you call me, you tell me your top five holdings, i tell you if your portfolio is diversified.
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what matters is that we learn. so let's start am i diversified. sgi suntrust. let's get to work. lulu lemon is very exciting. let's call it apparel. ebay is really a bank, as well as an exchange. suntrust, that's a bank that we charitable trust. apple is tech obviously and corner stone is tech. corner stone recommended dramatically lower and i want to take profits in corner stone right now. and yes, it is time for this portfolio low own bristol myers. they have a bank and they would have tech and then i would feel that -- by the way, i'm not signaling ebay and apple the same, the reason is because ebay is paypal.
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and paypal is more like visa and mastercard. let's go to patrick in connecticut. >> boo-yah, jim, thanks for taking my call. my top five holdings are intel, google, chipotle, gt advanced technologies, gtat, and gilead sciences. >> i'm going to say point blank, i'm going to give you why this is not a diversified portfolio. it's got too much high risk in terms of stocks. chipotle's is wild. only intel with a 4% yield is not spec. and gilead is a highly up and down crazy stock, that said, okay, you have an internet company, you've got a tech company, you've got a tech company that's very, very similar.
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keep intel. you have a biotech company and you have a food company. i need to see some diversified industrials. something like a ge in there would really help. and then i think we'll be in good shape. but please, cut the risk profile because a down 100 day, that portfolio is going to be down 5%. let's go to jimbo in michigan. >> thanks for taking my call. my five stocks are apple, aapl, intuitive surgical, isrg, pepsico, pep, johnson and johnson, jnj, disney, dis. am i diversified, jim? >> let's go to work here. for jimbo, which is what my sister nan always calls me. j and j, pharmaceutical, pepsi, disney, entertainment, intuitive surgical and apple is technology, you got technology, you got pharma, you've got beverage, you've got entertainment and medical.
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intuitive is different enough from j and j that i'm not going to say it's not diversified. i'm going to bless that. purists would say jim you should make him sell intuitive surgical. let's go to nathan in maryland. >> caller: boo-yah, cramer, nathan in maryland, my stocks are abbott laboratories, adp, jp morgan, jpm. att, and target. >> sorry, i buzzed you because i don't want to run out of time. this is a really important portfolio. why? because stephanie, action alerts portfolio, also on "fast money" today. we were both thinking this is the stock that we should be buying, philip morris international. target is a discount chain.
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abbott, pharma, good yields in all these, good growth, tobacco, retailer, pharma, bank, telco. that is, nathan's portfolio is the winner tonight. stay with cramer. now, that's what i call a test drive. silverado! the most dependable, longest lasting, full-size pickups on the road.
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>> everybody's exciting about research in motion because they didn't report such a horrible number. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to try to find it somewhere for you. to find it somewhere for you. i will see you tomorrow. patients and insurance companies to con men and scammers. an entry to this underground business is simple. >> healthcare fraud is easy to commit. it's easier than dealing drugs. >> this is all about money. it's going "cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching." >> from doctors who perform unnecessary surgeries... >> everybody in the whole system suffered as a result of these crooks. >> seemingly trustworthy businessmen who actually sell phony insurance. >> they took away my future. >> "crime inc." takes you into
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